I got this roller from my dad who in tern bought it from a guy at work. Needless to say the story that goes with this gun has been lost to the winds.
I have asked on a couple of different forums with no real answers. This gun has all of the hallmarks of the NYS rifles but it is in 45-70. There is no cartouch on the stock the only make other then the three line on the tang is a B on the left side of the bbl just ahead of the receiver ring. When I took it to the smith for the chamber cast and bore slug the only thing they could find in their books was that it might be a cadet rifle. The three line on the tang ends with Nov 7th 1871
Well here are the picks
This gun was never blued and only has a nice light patina to show its age. Any help would be great this rifle has been driving me crazy trying to figure it out.
The NYS Model Rolling Block Rifle that you have is 45-70. Remington did make some of these guns in 45-70, don't know if a small lot was sold to New York State National Guard or not, or if they were just sold on the commercial market. I have two NYS model rifles that are chambered in 45-70 in my collection. One is like yours, it has barrel band springs on the forearm and a sling swivel on the trigger guard. The second one was made at a later date, having the last patent date of 1874, it has no barrel band springs on the forearm and the sling swivel is not on the trigger guard, but is on the bottom of the butt stock. Have seen 3 of these rifles listed on different gun auction sites or different dealer web sites over the last few years. They are a hard gun to come across.
Hope this information helps answer some of your questions.
I concur with Matt. These were offered for sale in the late 1880s in Lamberson catalogs for civilian sale as the "New York State Model." Though the .45-70 caliber isn't mentioned it is often observed on these commercial market rifles (which are scarce). Ed Hull
Thanks gents.
As I said the lack of a cartouch was really driving me batty. I know that the Marine Corps had a small number of the NYS pattern gun chambered in 45-70. The # 25 on the but stock still has me scratching my head I know it is a rack number but where the heck from? Well I guess somethings will just have to be a mystery.
Thanks again.
P.S. Matt what do your bbls slug out to? I haven gotten the results from the smith yet and was wondering if they ran large like the trapdoors.
Don't let the lack of a cartouch on the stock drive you batty. Some of the stocks on the New York State rifles had field replacements put on them. I have a photo of company D, 12th NY, in Buffalo, in August 23, 1892 at a railroad yard and one of the members of the unit, you can see the guns receivers tangs in the photo, because he broke the butt stock of the rifle and has tied to the barrel with his sling. So they had to replace the stocks now and then.
As for the painted # 25 on the butt stock of your gun, I would agree that it is a rack number but not for the National Guard. They usually stamped a small number on the Butt plate or stock, never seen a painted rack number in any photos of the New York National guard that I have in my collect or on any rifle that I have seen at gun shows or on the web. Been collecting them for 20 years now. I have about nine photo's of sons of civil war veterans with NYS Model Rifles that I believe are chambered in 45-70, they match the 2nd type of NYS rifle in my collection with no barrel band springs and having the sling swivel on the bottom of the butt stock and not on the triger guard. So your rifle may of belonged to a similar group.
Will pull my guns from the safe this weekend and slug the bores. Have shot cast .458 bullets in the past in my 45-70's.
Good info Matt thanks. I am starting to get upset with the smith I didnt hear from him this past week If I dont hear from him on Monday I will call him up and give him a piece of my mind. I really what to get to developing some loads and get this old girl shooting.
What bullet weights were you using in yours? Will yours stabilize a 500gr slug? Trying to get some ideas of what components I want to get. I already have some good ideas for powders just need to start thinking of projo's.
Sorry to hear that you haven't heard back from the gunsmith.
I pulled my 2 NYS Model rifles in 45-70, out of the safe today.
One of them slugged out at .455 and the 2nd was .457 in diameter.
The only bullet mold that I have for the 45-70 is made by Lyman #45193 which casts a .458 dia. bullet at 405 grains. Can't help you with a load, haven't had a time to work up a load for them, to many other projects going on. Have shot some of my NYS model rifles in 50-70, using 68 grs of Black Powder and 52 grs of Pyrodex select, obtained 1-inch groups off the bench at 50 yards. Have found out that the 50-70 has less recoil then the 45-70.
If you want to try to shoot a 500 gr. bullet, you should check out Buffalo Arms. They sell
different types of cast bullets, that way you can try different weights to see what will work best in your rifle.
I thought all NY Militia RRB's were 50-70, not 45-70...... I have just gotten one, Rem Historical Dept is a bit baffled as to the cartouche. Has all the hallmarks of a NY saddle ring carbine, in 50-70, but the cartouche is "USI", then "56", then the initials "EK".......... Anyone have any ideas on this one ?
Live on a lake and I don't fish, collect guns and I don't hunt,,,,be afraid, something is very wrong with this man.....
Sorry for the delay. Got the rifle back a couple weeks ago it is 45-70 took her out shooting last weekend. Shot well at 100yards didnt shoot for groups just did my part to put dents in a 10" gong. Thanks for the help guys.
I have the exact same model NY model 1877 45/70 rolling block with a different number painted on the stock. I bought it years ago from a county sheriff in Ada Michigan. Mine has a Buffington sight, but a standard edwards sigh fits also. It may have been a national guard rifle, a personal rifle bought on the commercial market, or possibly used by some militia or cadet company It shoots very well with both the lyman 385 grain ,and the 405 grain lazer cast bullet ( 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 inches at 100 yds.) using the trapdoor loads in the Accurate Arms powder manual.
Chugachmt
Do you have a pic of the the rack number on yours. I would like to compare the style of stencil and the paint shade.
Mine fires 350gr cast very well I havent had much time to try other loadings yet but I feel confident that she will be a shooter with almost any loading.
