Rolling Block No.1 sporter

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
marlinman93
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Re: Rolling Block No.1 sporter

Post by marlinman93 »

Yellowhouse wrote:Vall, maybe this was what De Haas was referring to when he said some early military rifles had the longer lower tang. Yeah, I know he was smoking something at one point but he may have gotten this right :|
From what Matt has shown, I believe DeHaas was correct about the early military and Sporting actions. Never seen a 1 1/2 with a long tang, so I still believe he was incorrect by including them as having longer lower tangs on early ones. My #1 1/2 is a 5xx serial number, and it has equal length tangs, as have all the others I've seen.-Vall
Longknife
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:45 am

Re: Rolling Block No.1 sporter

Post by Longknife »

SharpShtr, I have seen these RB conversions and always wondered where to get those huge cartridges?? They would have to be a BLAST to shoot, How much powder will they hold and what is the bullet weight?
SharpsShtr
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:29 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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Re: Rolling Block No.1 sporter

Post by SharpsShtr »

Longknife,

If you were wanting to buy already loaded factory ammo it would be pretty tough. I did see one company on the internet that sells loaded cartridges, unfortunately they were one hundred twenty dollars for twenty rounds so I passed on them.

That pretty much leaves rolling your own. You can go one of two routes on making cartridges. The easy way is to use ready available brass that is close and then form it to fit. You can use either 24 gauge brass shotgun shells or .577 Snider cases, each require a little forming. For bullets you can use the same minié balls that you'd use for a muzzleloader (which works since they started off as muzzleloading muskets). Depending on the cartridge case you may need to wrap the bullet with paper to keep it centered in the case. Croft Barker wrote a couple of articles (Spring & Summer 2007 issues of the Black Powder Cartidge News) where he did this with his Transformation Rolling Block that he was restoring. If you go this route you'll and want to select a traditionally styled minié, you want to keep the powder charges low (around 60 grains) or you deform the thin skirts and accuracy with go down the tubes. On miniés with thicker skirts you could up the powder charge. The original style miniés (575213 OS) that I have weigh around 490 grains.

The other way to go is to try to reproduce the original .58 Berdan cartridge, with it's 550 grain bullet and a powder charge of 80 to 85 grains of powder. This is the route I'm going (not quick or easy). I do have one original cartridge that I have to work with. The brass was the easiest part. I did a chamber cast and sent it off to Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company. They made up custom lathe turned brass that can be called nothing less than works of art. Here are a couple of photos of one with a .50-70 and .30-06 for comparison (notice the nice thick case walls):

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The bullets were a little tougher. Miniés are under bore size since they were intended to be loaded through the muzzle. As such they rely on proper obscuration for accuracy, something that I didn't want to rely on. I wanted the original style bullet that was used in the Berdan cartridge. The rub was that I didn't want to destroy my original (and expensive) cartridge to see what was inside of the case. Luckily a very nice member of this forum stepped up to the plate. He provided me with drawings showing disassembled, cross-sectioned, and measured cartridges (originally drawn by Bannerman in 1912 I believe). They showed the cross section of the bullet, powder charge, and all other pertinent details.

So armed with this information I slugged the bore and had it measured by a Mr. McKagen, who used to provide such a service. Then I sent the measurements, the cartridge diagrams, and the original cartridge to Steve Brooks to have a bullet mould made. I told him that I wanted the exposed nose section to match the original bullet, but that the interior portion would be up to his discretion as to what would work best (the man makes outstanding bullet moulds). He was worried that the original 550 grain bullets wouldn't stabilize properly in the 1 in 72" twist barrel, so he ingeniously made me an adjustable weight grease groove bullet mould. I didn't know that was even possible. The mould casts very nice round bullets with the weights being 401 grains for a small bullet up to 559 grains for the large bullet. Here's a photo of the original cartridge along with two of the new bullets:

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So now that I have the components, I have sent off to CH4D for the dies that'll allow me to put them all together. At a minimum I'll be getting a combination sizing & inside neck-reamer die, a trim die, and a powder compression die. That may work as a minimum die set or I may need to acquire expander and bullet seating/crimping dies as well.

As to how well the rifle will ultimately shoot is a good question, the bore is very worn at the muzzle end (i.e. no rifling remaining). I did load a few cases with 60 grains of Goex and firmly hand seated an over powder wad & then the above mentioned miniés. Pretty shoddy as far as reloading goes, but I wanted to shoot her. From a standing position at 50 yards it printed an eight inch group. I was reasonably happy with this first attempt considering that the cases weren't sized or trimmed, the loads were just thrown together, and the sights are currently pretty unusable. I am hoping for much better results once I get my dies and a better set of sights attached to her. The ultimate amount of powder will be more than the 60 grains I used, probably something in the 85 to 95 grain area. I hope I'm not just throwing away money on her, but I feel the need to get her shooting as she was intended.

So there's a book to answer your question. Sorry for rambling on so.



Matt
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
strong enough to take everything you have - Thomas Jefferson

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
In this life we get nothing save by effort - Theodore Roosevelt
pic-a-lo
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Rolling Block No.1 sporter

Post by pic-a-lo »

Gentlemen:
I have a Remington roller which I got from a friend of mine.I chambered caste it & came up with a 44 EX Long Ballard.It has 44 on the under side in front of the forearm. Pat. dates on left side of receiver,what I can read is June or July1804.I need a rear sight,the original had a hair line crack and broke off.Can anyone help???Any info will be greatly appreciated.The bottom tang is longer than the top.
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