ordnance steel vs remington steel

[hap]

i've heard both these terms on the forum- could someone
explain the difference?
thanks

[2shooter]

Hap.. Remington barrels are Remington steel barrels. The 1902 Remington
catalog list."Ordnance Steel is of the highest grade,and is especially recommended for heavy charges of nitro powder.The tensile strength of the steel is 110,000 lbs.and elastic limit 60,000 lbs. this being greatly in excess of any strain to which shotgun barrels are subjected with reasonable loads of nitro powders.. The barrels are marked Ordnance so you can tell it is Ordnance..Hopes this helps..

[Researcher]

The April 1897 Remington Arms Co. catalogue introduces steel barrels on the Remington Hammerless Doubles. Prior to that date they were only offered with Damascus barrels of varying qualities by grade. Two types of steel barrels were introduced.

Remington Steel which sold for the same price as the ordinary Damascus barrels on A-grade guns. "Remington" blued steel barrels are manufactured in our own works, and sold at the same price as ordinary Damascus barrels.

As 2shooter quoted from the Remington Arms Co. catalogues -- "Ordnance Steel" is of the highest grade, and is especially recommended for heavy charges of nitro powder. The tensile strength of this steel is 110,000 lbs., and elastic limit 60,000 lbs., this being greatly in excess of any strain to which shotgun barrels are subjected with reasonable loads of nitro powders.

Ordnance Steel barrels were offered at the same price as the fancier Damascus barrels on grades C and above, but cost a $10 premium on A- and B-Grades when introduced in 1897, and climbed to $15 by the 1899 catalogue and remaied so through the 1909 catalogue.

When the John Browning designed Remington Autoloading Gun was introduced in 1905, its barrel was made of Remington Steel from the lowest No. 1 to the highest No. 6 Premier Grade.

[hap]

ok - i have a grade 1 1889 with decarbonized steel barrels, is this the same
as "remington steel" ? do you know what process was used to make decarbonized
steel ( poured fluid? cold bored? ) as opposed to damascus & twist?

[2shooter]

Hap, The Remington catalog 1875 list barrels of decarbonized steel. In manfacture of these barrels they are rolled from solid metal ,without weld or seam.The barrel blanks are two inches in diameter nine inches long three-fourth inch hole drilled through. They are rolled to size bored out, then turned and ground proved with a heavy charge of powder and a solid slug
of lead.Then lugs are brazed on and barrels brazed at the butts ribs,extractor finish-boring chambering fit to receiver they are proof again after gun is finish..Remington is credited to decarbonized steel barrel..

[Researcher]

Whether there is a difference between the "Decarbonized Steel" of the lowest grade Remington hammerguns and the "Remington Steel" of the lowest grade hammerless guns has long been a question to which I've seen no satisfactory answer.

[RemRB]

Hap, This is probably more info than you figured you would get. There is a difference between decarbonized and remington steel. I don't know the content of remington steel but assume it is much stronger than decarbonized, possible containing some carbon. From a letter I have of a man (deceased) who was the associate curator of History at the Rochester Museum of Science Center. He was a historian. This from his letter explaining the origin of decarbonized steel. "The Englishman Henry Bessemer filled a big heat proof retort---The Bessemer Converter---with several tons of molten pig iron and then introduced a blast of air. With this supply of oxygen, the carbon content of the pig iron ignited
(carbon burns readily as in coal) and burned out. The resulting material was "decarbonized steel". This was the same thing that we call mild steel today. It is the material for wire nails, auto bodies, paper clip, structual steel, and thousands of other products today". The letter goes on, " I suppose, though I really don't know, that modern shotgun barrels are made of some sort of alloy steel of higher dtrength than plain mild or low carbon steel. If so, that would be an argument for using only low-pressure loads in a "decarbonized" steel barrel".
I think of this steel as being soft like Damascus. You'll see a lot more repairable dents in these steels than in a more modern steel. If Remington used this in their auto loading shotguns I don't think John Browning would have been happy. Sorry to be so lengthy. 2shooter is correct in how Remington made the barrels.

[hap]

thanks to all- very interesting and most informative- i have removed some minor dings from
decarbonized barrels and can confirm that it is indeed quite mallable. i've often wondered about the process of manufacture - I would venture that " Remington Steel " was commercial
decarbonized steel produced to company specifications as to hardness, elasticity, etc.

[Researcher]

I just noticed an interesting offer on the "Extras and Repairs" pages of the 1918-19 and 1923 Remington catalogues.

In 1918-19 they offer an Ordnance Steel barrel in place of the regular Remington Steel barrel on the No. 10 pump and No. 11 autoloading gun for an extra $9.75.

In the 1923 catalogue they just offer the Ordnance Steel barrel as an extra cost option on the No. 10. I haven't found such an offering in the 1910 or 1914 Remington catalogues. I wonder if someone doing inventory stumbled on a supply of old Ordnance tubes and they decided to use them up.

Anyone ever see or have a No. 10 or No. 11 with an Ordnance Steel barrel?

[ChuckD]

I have found this discussion interesting, but have a question. Is there some marking to identify the type of steel used in the barrels? I'm familiar with the REP proof mark, but would there be an indication of Ordnance steel if use? I presume Remington steel wouldn't be indicated as it was standard.

[Researcher]

On the Remington Arms Co. hammerless doubles the word Ordnance was stamped on the top of the barrel tubes on the AO-/AEO-Grade and BO-/BEO-Grade guns. On the CO-/CEO-Grades and higher the words Remington Arms Co. were engraved on top of the right barrel and Ilion, N.Y. U.S.A. with the word Ordnance below on the left barrel. I've never knowingly seen one of the repeaters with an Ordnance steel barrel to have any idea how they are marked.

[RemRB]

ChuckD,
Most always a Model 1894 hammerless that has ordnance steel barrels, the barrels are engraved on the top "Ordnance", usually the left barrel. Some, but not many observed, if the barrels are remington steel, the top of each barrel is stamped "Remington".
Model 1900 hammerless do not have ornance barrels, just remington steel if it as a steel barreled gun and not damascus.