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low serial number model 10 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:03 pm
Posts: 9
Post low serial number model 10
Bought a model 10 at a local gun auction today. It has a two digit serial number and was wondering if anyone knows what the lowest known existing serial number for a model 10 is. Sure don't see many of these around and this one has some condition problems but it seems to function properly. Nice old gun! Want to clean it up and keep it!


Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:11 pm
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Washington and Alaska
Post Re: low serial number model 10
With a serial number that low it wouldn't be a Model 10. Is it actually marked Model 10 anywhere on the gun?

The shotgun that came to be known as the Remington Model 10 was introduced in the 1908-09 Remington Arms Co. catalogue as the "Remington Repeating Shotgun" --

Image

Image

In the February 15, 1910, Remington price list the gun is called the Model 1908. In 1911, Marcellus Hartley Dodge combined his arms and his ammunition companies as Remington Arms -- Union Metallic Cartridge Co., and the gun became known as the Model No. 10. During WW-I time the company name got Inc. added. In 1920, the company name was changed again to Remington Arms Co., Inc.

The old factory ledger from Ilion that was started with the resumption of civilian arms production after WW-I, shows the first entry for Model 10 had reached serial number 172939 on Sept. 30, 1919. U was a Remington "stock letter" for this pump gun.

I'm sure we'd all like to see some good pictures of this very early Remington Repeating Shotgun. With that low a serial number the gun should be marked Remington Arms Co. Not, Remington Arms -- Union Metallic Cartridge Co., (Inc.) or Remington Arms Co., Inc.


Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:49 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:03 pm
Posts: 9
Post Re: low serial number model 10
Wish I could get some better pictures but here is some further information. The SN is U20 and only apperars on the receiver, not on the barrel. The action bar says "trade Remington mark" . The only barrel markings are "full" followed by a "P" on the left side ofthe barrel and patent marks on the top of the barrel: "Remington Arms Co, Ilion, N.Y. USA" on one line and "Patents Feby 3 1903, May16, 1905" on the line below. RP proof mark on right side of barrel surrounded by an elongated circle. It is a takedown shotgun with a 30" plain barrel. The model number is no where to be found but it has the action of a model 10. Need to learn how to attach pics. The gun looks identical to the standard grade picture in the brochure you attached. That includes the trigger guard and safety. It also has a Hawkins recoil pad instead of the hard rubber pad from Remington. Didn't see that as an option on the Remington price list so must have been added later. Understand the pads are pretty rare.


Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:20 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 51
Post Re: low serial number model 10
Researcher,

In 1906 Remington Firearms (All one line) catalogue that I just picked up an original copy of there appears an illustration with the K.D. and K.E.D. guns on page 5 that looks like a hunter in a boat and a dog in tall grass.

The gun he is holding looks like the Remington Repeating Gun.

If that's the case #U20 may have been produced earlier than the 1907 introduction that has always been thought.

Will


Wed May 02, 2012 5:30 pm
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Washington and Alaska
Post Re: low serial number model 10
I never noticed that --

Image

Where did the 1907 date for the introduction come from? The pump gun isn't in the 1907 or the 1908 Remington Arms Co. catalogues. I find it first appearing in the 1908-09 Remington Arms Co. catalogue.

Dr. Drew Hause posted this old picture showing Frank Riehl holding a gun which sure looks like a Remington Repeating Shotgun to me, and its dated May 25, 1907 --

Image

Maybe they were given out to "select shooters" prior to being offered to the general public.


Wed May 02, 2012 6:11 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:44 pm
Posts: 51
Post Re: low serial number model 10
Researcher,

I am not really sure that I ever saw it in official print anywhere, but it has been stated in a number of post that I have seen through time.

I believe some were in circulation prior to their appearance in the catalogues.

I am also working on an interesting theory concerning the RAS production stats.

Will


Wed May 02, 2012 6:45 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:03 pm
Posts: 9
Post Re: low serial number model 10
Thanks for all your efforts! I've become very interested in the history of old shotguns of late, both Remington and Winchester. The history of the Remingtons is not as well documented as Winchesters and your finding this information for me is much appreciated. It amazes me that a gun over 100 years old still function mechanically as well as this one and is a testament to the craftsmen that built it. There's no rust on it but the cosmetics are not the greatest. The picture of Mr. Riehl holding the shotgun sure does look a Remington repeater in trap grade based on the forearm checkering. Mine has a ribbed forearm shown in the standard grade pictures. Stock and grip are the some shape. Based on what you've posted, is this then a true Model 10 or a previous model? Will post pictures as soon as I can find a higher resolution camera......thanks again....john


Thu May 03, 2012 8:56 am
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Washington and Alaska
Post Re: low serial number model 10
To my way of thinking, your gun would not be a Model No. 10. It would be a Remington Repeating Shotgun or if you like a Model 1908. The Model No. 10 was mde during the teens by Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. (Inc.) and the 1920s by Remington Arms Co., Inc. I am not at all mechanical, so I don't know if there are any minor mechanical differences between these John D. Pedersen designed pump guns as made by Remington Arms Co., Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. (Inc.) or Remington Arms Co., Inc. I do know that the parts are made of unobtainium, and that there is no one left alive who can put them right if they get out of sorts.


Thu May 03, 2012 10:36 am
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:03 pm
Posts: 9
Post Re: low serial number model 10
Pictures of U20:


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Thu May 03, 2012 11:06 am
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