870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking" ?

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kestrel
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870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking" ?

Post by kestrel »

Is there an after-market device that limits or removes the potential of "short shucking" an 870 Wing Master.

A modification to the shell lifter perhaps ?
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Virginian
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Re: 870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking

Post by Virginian »

"Short shucking" is 100% operator error. In order to properly cycle the action, and eject the empty, the bolt must come fully back. It is directly connected to the fore end, no gears or levers, so nothing to modify... or go wrong. I have seen every make of shotgun short shucked at one time or another. Lots of times it happens when someone goes from one that is nice and slick with a few thousand rounds through it to one that is still pretty new and stiff. But, most new Wingmasters aren't that stiff to start. I had trouble when I first went to using a very small, tight floating blind, but I worked through it. Not the gun's fault.
What could have happened... did.
kestrel
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Re: 870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking

Post by kestrel »

** Below is the article that made me think there was some sort of modification available but I am not sure if this would be a worthwhile investment. ***


The Gunner's Galley
Sunday, July 31, 2011


Remington 870 Shell Lifter (New vs Old Type)

Yesterday at my club's Three-gun match, we were discussing the differences between the new and old style Remington 870 Shell Lifters. The new style lifter came out around 1985-86, around the same time as the Rem-Choke system. The newer style had a three-sided, rectangular cut-out in it. This was known as the Flexi-Tab Shell Lifter. Remington also made changes to the Bolt and the Carrier Plate to accommodate the new lifter.

The reason for the changes was because Remington received complaints that if you Short-shucked an 870, or didn't fully seat the shells into the magazine tube, a shell could inadvertently pop out under the bolt, and on top of the lifter, which would jam up the shotgun. The old style Lifter was made of heavier material so it was far more rigid and wouldn't flex. Now if you loaded an 870 properly and didn't Short-shuck the action this wasn't a problem. I've owned and used several (old type) Remington 870's since around 1975 and I've never experienced this problem. I currently have five of the old style 870 police shotguns in my inventory.

Now if you do experience a jam of this nature there are a couple ways of clearing it. You can take a pocket knife and slide it along the Shell Lifter, pushing the round back into the magazine tube (another reason to always carry a knife). Or you can hold the Slide Release lever in and strike the butt of the shotgun on a hard surface like the ground (muzzle pointed in a safe direction of course) and that should clear the jam. If I was fighting for my life, and I had cover available to me, this would be the technique I'd use.

Now Remington sells a conversion kit consisting of a new Bolt, Shell Carrier, and Carrier Plate. Depending on where you find them, the update kit runs from $65.00 to $99.00. Either Brownell's or Midway USA probably carry this conversion kit. Personally, if you have an old style 870, I'd say save the money and use it towards shotgun ammo so you can learn how to run the gun properly.
Of course, if you do experience a jam on any long gun and you don't have available cover, then you should be transitioning to your handgun. Now if you're carrying a long gun into a armed encounter and you don't have a handgun to transition to, then you've just stepped into another pile of dog dung.

WWW.GunTrainingIL.com

http://www.remington.com/

WWW.Brownells.com

WWW.MidwayUSA.com
Virginian
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Re: 870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking

Post by Virginian »

That modification doesn't stop short shucking, it just limits the side effects from doing it. I have never done it in 40+ years with 870s, but I have sure seen guns tied up with a shell under the carrier and bolt, and the ones I have seen did not come from short shucking, it came from someone not pushing a shell far enough into the magazine for the shell latch to engage and hold it, and then the shell popped back into the receiver under the bolt and carrier. There are several ways to clear it, but I was always able to use a pocketknife and push the shell back into the magazine without disassembly.
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Synchronizor
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Re: 870 WingMaster - Modification to reduce "Short Shucking

Post by Synchronizor »

Generally, the problem caused by short-shucking is that the action bars don't come back far enough to move the shell latch, so the next shell isn't released from the magazine, and you end up closing the action and pulling the trigger on an empty chamber. Modding the carrier system won't do a thing to address this. You could, in theory, make a custom fore-end tube assembly with action bars that have camming surfaces set further back to release the next shell from the magazine sooner during the slide stroke, but then the timing of the carrier will be off, and the early feeding could interfere with ejection.

Like Virginian said, short-shucking is all operator error, and you can do it to any shotgun, regardless of the design. If you want a pump gun to run reliably, get in the habit of pulling the slide all the way back until it stops of its own accord before bringing it back forward. If you're in a rush and start abbreviating that forward-back motion to try to save time, you'll lose a lot more time trying to shoot with an empty chamber.

The flex-tab doesn't do anything to stop short-shucking, it addresses the possibility of a shell coming out of the magazine when the action is closed and wedging itself between the slide assembly and shell carrier. On older 870s, this would usually bind the action. The updated flex-tab carrier and new-style slide assembly and breech bolt keeps the action from binding in this situation. More information and a demonstration in this video.
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