Anyone have an idea what these markings are? They look like inventory marks to me. But who's inventory?
Rifle is a Rem Mo 25 in 32 WCF. Upper and lower receiver sections have mismatched S/Ns. Looks like it has been carried quite a lot.
Mo 25 mystery markings
Mo 25 mystery markings
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Re: Mo 25 mystery markings
These guns along with the Model 14 were used a lot by numerous prisons throughout the US,
Canada, and even some in Australia. I have an M25 in 32-20 stamped Dept. of Corrections for Cook County, IL. The police department my Dad worked for had some M25's and when they retired them in the early 60's they were not only "well used" but looked like they had been used to defend Dien Bien Phu!
Canada, and even some in Australia. I have an M25 in 32-20 stamped Dept. of Corrections for Cook County, IL. The police department my Dad worked for had some M25's and when they retired them in the early 60's they were not only "well used" but looked like they had been used to defend Dien Bien Phu!
Jim Peterson
Re: Mo 25 mystery markings
That sounds about right. Externally it is well worn. But the internals and bore are in excellent condition, and the action slick, indicating it was carried much and shot little. I took it out shooting yesterday and it did very well. I had originally planned to make this the one that I convert to 218Bee, but I am getting a soft spot for it just the way it is.
Re: Mo 25 mystery markings
Roger that, they were according to the most responsible M25 source were also used as guns for bank guards.
Converting one of these to .218 Bee, in "my" opinion lacks judgment.
Converting one of these to .218 Bee, in "my" opinion lacks judgment.
Jim Peterson
Re: Mo 25 mystery markings
Jim is right. I would strongly advise you not to rechamber a Remington M-25 into a 218 Bee.
Re: Mo 25 mystery markings
That’s good general advice gentlemen. And you make great straight men for one of my favorite rants. So I take no offense.
My only concern with converting a Mo25 to 218 Bee is that the Bee is rated for much higher pressures than should be used in the 25. In my experience, loads for the Mo25 should be limited to 25ksi for smooth functioning, and 30ksi if you don’t mind sticking and shortened case life. Bees are rated at 40ksi which is too high in my experience.
I personally don’t run my 32-20 or 25-20 or 218Bee loads hot. There is no point. I have an abundance of more powerful rifles. If I need more power, I take a different rifle. But many shooters, way to many, are obsessed with trying to see how many fps they can get out of a cartridge. And the Bee seems to be one of those cartridges that this type likes to fool with. I have seen reports in which guys brag of getting near 223 performance out of a Bee. Sheesh, if they wanted a 223, they should have bought a 223 for far less money than it takes to get a Bee. Far too many nice Winchester 43s have been overloaded for this reason.
The pressure limit is rooted in the thickness (or actually thin-ness) of the case wall near the web. Anything over 25 to 30Ksi (depending on case manufacturer) causes the case to yield and stretch longitudinally, resulting in unnecessary pressure on the locking surfaces. This also causes friction on the breach block, which must slide down to unlock, and shortened case life. The way to know whether you are pushing the Mo 25 too far is to feel for sticky extraction. If you sense any, back off a little. The rifle isn’t necessarily in danger of failure, but why press a nice old gun for a few more fps? If your load doesn’t have enough power or velocity at that level, get a bigger gun.
As for me, my pet load for the 32-20 in the Mo25 is a case full of Trailboss behind a 60gr hollow point 32ACP pistol bullet for about 1350fps. Pressures are very mild and accuracy is excellent. And at 1350fps this bullet is explosive. If I want a little more power, 9 grains of SR4759 behind almost any bullet is a good moderate pressure general purpose load, but a little loud for my taste. My pet load for the 25-20 is 2.45gr of IMR PB behind a Meister 85gr hard cast bullet seated backwards. Yes, seated backwards. Velocity is only 1000fps, but it hits like it is going twice that speed. You can see the details of what this load can do here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63887. Both of the low end loads are easy on the ears (especially the subsonic 25-20 load) and suit my purposes well.
My desired load for the Bee would be a 33gr Speer HP at 2600fps. This can be achieved at under 20ksi. It is going to be a lot louder than I normally prefer, but anything less and I may as well be shooting a 22mag, which is really the reason I haven’t gotten around to doing this already. As for the difficulties in making, or reversing the conversion, I foresee none.
My only concern with converting a Mo25 to 218 Bee is that the Bee is rated for much higher pressures than should be used in the 25. In my experience, loads for the Mo25 should be limited to 25ksi for smooth functioning, and 30ksi if you don’t mind sticking and shortened case life. Bees are rated at 40ksi which is too high in my experience.
I personally don’t run my 32-20 or 25-20 or 218Bee loads hot. There is no point. I have an abundance of more powerful rifles. If I need more power, I take a different rifle. But many shooters, way to many, are obsessed with trying to see how many fps they can get out of a cartridge. And the Bee seems to be one of those cartridges that this type likes to fool with. I have seen reports in which guys brag of getting near 223 performance out of a Bee. Sheesh, if they wanted a 223, they should have bought a 223 for far less money than it takes to get a Bee. Far too many nice Winchester 43s have been overloaded for this reason.
The pressure limit is rooted in the thickness (or actually thin-ness) of the case wall near the web. Anything over 25 to 30Ksi (depending on case manufacturer) causes the case to yield and stretch longitudinally, resulting in unnecessary pressure on the locking surfaces. This also causes friction on the breach block, which must slide down to unlock, and shortened case life. The way to know whether you are pushing the Mo 25 too far is to feel for sticky extraction. If you sense any, back off a little. The rifle isn’t necessarily in danger of failure, but why press a nice old gun for a few more fps? If your load doesn’t have enough power or velocity at that level, get a bigger gun.
As for me, my pet load for the 32-20 in the Mo25 is a case full of Trailboss behind a 60gr hollow point 32ACP pistol bullet for about 1350fps. Pressures are very mild and accuracy is excellent. And at 1350fps this bullet is explosive. If I want a little more power, 9 grains of SR4759 behind almost any bullet is a good moderate pressure general purpose load, but a little loud for my taste. My pet load for the 25-20 is 2.45gr of IMR PB behind a Meister 85gr hard cast bullet seated backwards. Yes, seated backwards. Velocity is only 1000fps, but it hits like it is going twice that speed. You can see the details of what this load can do here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63887. Both of the low end loads are easy on the ears (especially the subsonic 25-20 load) and suit my purposes well.
My desired load for the Bee would be a 33gr Speer HP at 2600fps. This can be achieved at under 20ksi. It is going to be a lot louder than I normally prefer, but anything less and I may as well be shooting a 22mag, which is really the reason I haven’t gotten around to doing this already. As for the difficulties in making, or reversing the conversion, I foresee none.