Replacement sights for Model 1 Sporting Rifle

[Tom Jordan]

Howdy All,

I'm now the steward of my great grandfathers' Remington rolling block Sporting rifle .45.70. I've come to this conclusion from internet searches (long lower tang, tipped fore stock) and now believe it to be a "model 1" with a sliding extractor.

I intend to keep the rifle in the family and would also like to shoot it. The rifle is in very good mechanical condition and I got a local gun smith to help me verify this.

The rifle is missing the sights. I've looked at many websites with likely replacements but am a little confused re: dovetail sizes and and suitable sights. The upper tang is not tapped for a tang sight and i ought to keep it that way, I think...

The front sight dove tail "mics" out to 7/16" and the rear sight dovetail appears to be right at 1/4". The barrel is a non-tapered octagon and about 1"-1 1/8" depending on how it is measured.

Can somebody tell me if these dovetail dimensions are "standard" and what type of sights I should purchace? I do like to shoot and will likely take the rifle on a hunt but not real interested in "target" sights at this point. I may consider a "period" scope with a side mount as well.

I'd appreciate any input or info from the group.

Thank you,

Tom Jordan

[Tony Kastella]

Tom,
I recently acquired a Remington Rolling Block that has been in the family since at least the 1930's. It is in great condition and I too am trying to get it all ready. The sight issue for me is a non issue as the sights are there! The front is a Beach Combination Globe Front sight. Folded down it is used with the rear "buckhorn" sight but both fold up! Looks like the front Beach is a target sight also. The rear is missing the eyecup and screw so can not be used for long distance shooting. But.... I found this, Montana Vintage Arms produces Original replacement parts for Remingtons. I also found Lone Star Rifles, Dave higginbotham, of Texas but when i contacted them they recommended Montana Vintage Arms.
Two books that help a lot for me are, "The Sight Book" by George Madis. This is a reference for the different sights seen on Winchesters but with the older firearms I see a lot of the same sights and it gives useful dimensions!
Another book is "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" by Mike Venturino. Lots of help with Sharps mainly but enough of Remington stuff and reloading stuff to warrant buying it!
My problems have been getting cases for Remington 40-70. I got some 40-70 Sharps bottleneck but they do not fit the chamber. I made a chamber cast using Cerrosafe Metal from Brownell's. I sent this to CH Tool and Die of Ohio along with a cast of the barrel two inches down from the crown. CH had a set of neck dies so close as to be useful to form cases from 45-90 Winchester. CH found, from the barrel cast, the Groove Diameter is .409"
One of the ironic things for me is; the 45-90 winchester cases are formed from 45-70 Govt cases! Stretched out a bit! Tony Kastella

[Tony Kastella]

Tom, Forgot to mention my rolling block does not have a rear sight dovetail. It is taped for screws. I keep reading and hearing of a "common" sight for Remingtons called the "Rough and Ready" sight. This would apply to my sights, I think. The use of a dovetail rear is common but not sure how much more to help you. Tony K.

[Tom Jordan]

Tony,

Thank you for replying and the information is very usefull, especially since I have come accross the Beach sights on the internet. As far as the 1/4" dovetail for the rear sight, I may have to end up buying a 3/8" sight and having it cut down to fit the rifle.

I'm conserned with hurting the value of the rifle by tapping/drilling for the tang sights. That may be un-founded since it is pretty common but I'll have to consider it some more.

"cwsutter" also has some pretty cool vintage-type scopes! If i have to get into custom built dovetail mounts this is probably the way I'll go.

I "jumped the gun" and bought a box of factory 300 gr. .45.70 rounds the other day. On advise, I contacted Remington and while not recommending any particular rounds, did note that these rifles were not designed for the high pressures of modern ammunition.

I did find several sources for commercial black powder rounds @ 405 grains, so I'll start there. Making my own sounds fun but I don't think my wife can tolerate another one of my hobbies...

Tom

[Tony Kastella]

Tom, Since I posted I called Montana Vintage Arms and found they had lots of stuff for Remingtons! I ordered an Iris set and nut that fits on my "mast". I should be up and ready soon! By the way the rear sight is called the "rough and ready" but it is not a dove tail. Ammo for 45-70 is quite easy to make.
Find out your rifles Twist rate and bore "groove" diameter and you can calculate the length of bullet needed for your twist rate. My Ruger #1 does very nicely with 405 grain bullets and Unigue powder, but this is a modern smokeless powder rifle. You will often find loads listed in reloading manuals that list three different 45-70 loads, Springfield trap doors, Marlin and Winchester lever guns and the stronger Ruger #1 and #3 rifles. I suggest using your library card and see if your local library has books on reloading for your rifle. gun shows usually have lots of used equipment for a cheap price! good luck, tony k

[Tony Kastella]

Tom, Just found this Remington sight company, Axtell Rifle company of Sheridan, Montana
I agree don't cut, tap, drill that original. If you have to have it cut to fit the dovetail! tony K

[Floop]

I was in much the same situation as you. I inherited a .38 cal RRB rifle that was my GGrandfather's. Unfortunately, the original cartridge was .38 Long BP, rimfire. If you can find these today they are several dollars per round. Since the barrel looked really nice on the outside (tapered octagon) I wanted to keep the original barrel, even though it looked like a sewer pipe on the inside. I hunted around for several months looking for someone to reline the barrel. I finally found Jim Dubell at Delta Gun Shop in Colville, WA. He drilled out the corrosion and lined the barrel with a 4160 steel liner in .357 Mag caliber. He then chambered it for .357 Mag and converted it to centerfire. Originally I just wanted to turn it back into a shooter, but the project has grown into a full refinishing of metal, new wood, and new sights. The rifle was involved in a fire in about 1910 and the wood was scorched, and the metal finish destroyed, so I didn't lose any value by restoring it. Jim says it's one of the tightest and nicest #1 RRB actions he's ever seen. It shoots like a dream and it's still .38 caliber, about as close as we could get in a modern cartridge to the original. The liner is invisible at the crown and breech. It's nice to be able to walk into any store and buy ammo. It's at Jim's right now getting the final touches applied, and a new tang and globe sight setup.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if antique ammo becomes unavailable there are alternatives.

[Tom Jordan]

Floop,

I've been following your project...sounds like it's going to be a fine rifle! For me, I'm leaning towards Lonestar Rifle's reproduction sights. They have been very helpful and knowledgable. I'm thinking I'll go with the blade front sight and the rear barrel buckhorn. I've considered mounting the long Malcolm reproduction scope. The only consideration there is that would be the only "sights" on the rifle.

There is a Malcolm short scope and side mount available that would allow use of the open sights and I'm trying to get more info on the mounting hardware....like does it mount to existing screw holes or does it need additional drilling and tapping.

If I got in the position to decide I needed more "holes" in the rifle I will just get a reproduction tang sight. I can't see how this would detract from the rifle's value since it almost seems to be expected to have one...

Tom

[Floop]

Mine does have the original sights mostly. It's got the original rear buckhorn and the front dovetail mount is there. Somebody replaced the blade part of the front sight with a blade cut from a copper penny, it looks like. Jim Dubell is recommending I take a look at sights from Buffalo Arms if I decide to put the tang rear sight on it. They seem to have a pretty good selection and not everything costs an arm and a leg. If I go with a rear tang sight I'll probably get a front globe sight as well. The problem is the rifle just looks so darned nice with the stock buckhorn sight, really nice lines. I'll have to decide pretty soon.

[Tony Kastella]

Hello, I received the Montana Firearms sight iris and nut. Did a little touch up on the mast and it fits nicely! Seems to be a good product!

[Tony Kastella]

Hello, I had to travel through Montana so I stopped at Montana Vintage Arms to talk with them about my RRB. The parts I ordered were the correct replacement parts. They had never seen a sight like mine in "person" but in a book called "Old Gunsights, A collector's Guide 1850-1965" by Nick Stroebel there are lots of pictures of the many older sights Remington offered. Some of these are reproduced by Montana Vintage Arms. If you need sights there are many to choose from but I am happy with the parts I got from MVA.